North Saint Paul Water Management Plan 2008–Watershed In This City–2011 Flood

Potential lawsuits against the city of North St. Paul is possible.

Click on the link below to the City Water Management Plan.

Millions and millions of dollars were spent on water control in North St. Paul in the last 15 years after a series of similar major floods that destroyed homes and lives.

At the city council meeting last night, numerous citizens showed up and were beside themselves and were grief stricken; telling their stories of the flood. Several people that came forward during the open to the public portion part of the meeting have been struck by the same flooding up to 3 times. Many lost everything.

Lift station controls water level pictured left?

The ecological center retention pond (Target pond) that cost millions of dollars to put in was built  precisely to control water flow and flooding.   The outlet of Target Pond is 66″ in diameter, however the cumulative diameter of all the pipes going in are much bigger (volume). The largest pipe flowing in is a 102′” diameter pipe leading in from under Hwy 36 from the nature preserve (old sod farm)  along with other storm discharge entry points surrounding the pond creating a pinch point or bottle neck.

Read the report and apply common sense and you will see they made obvious blunders or purposely did not put extra money into a larger OUTLET  of Target pond.  WHY?

66″ Diameter NOT BIG ENOUGH. We now have had a 100 year flood about every 14 years.  Bigger is better since you already have to put a pipe in anyway, why not put 2 in. Oh sure, hind sight is 20-20 but two times, three times? The people who engineered this system and chose the pipe sizes where WRONG. One person with foresight (brains) would be  enough, let alone a couple dozen bureaucrats and engineers. However, this was  another Titanic mindset thinking on the part of the North Saint Paul Engineering Dept, Public Works  Department and other entities.

According to the Public Works Director, 6″ of rain fell in a short time, that’s not enough info. Over what period of time and who is your official source?? My source is NOAA, who has a different take.

Minnesota state law was not followed, IMHNAO– Look it up and read it.

I can see internal damage control by city officials right now, you could see it in their faces.  Full cover your own ass mode.  We need a full disclosure.

If they would have not tripped over a dollar to save a dime during the Target Pond project there would be a bigger out flow and the water would have moved more freely without backing up. This is all about water backing up. First, the watershed ponds, then the storm sewers then ultimately backup into the sewage system, then sewage into your house. The city may be responsible for that damage. This is a failure on on all parties in charge from the first drop of rain to the waters final destination .

No less responsible are home owners who for the cost of 10 pizzas and a pack of cigarettes could have got flood insurance through a Federal program (cheap). I have it, just like I had renters insurance for $50 dollars a year back in the mid 80’s, it’s VERY inexpensive as well.  You have to take responsibility for your own life and not expect others to bail you out. When I was in Colorado, the apartment building I lived in was mostly lost in a fire with 30 other families. My insurance agent the next day wrote me a check for $50,000 and set me up in a hotel all expenses paid for 30 days. All the other tenants that lost their apartments had no insurance and cried like babies for help to bail them out.

Fingers were being pointed at development in Oakdale and then “there were no obstructions in the system” was declared by the director of  the  Public Works. How do you know? have you ran a pig (obstruction checking clearing device) through the lines yet? I doubt it.

The Public Works Director needs to produce EVIDENCE that city services have not been cut down or degraded to a point over the last few years of CUT BACKS as to have cut  prevented  routine cleaning and maintenance along with verifying that the storm water system is free from grocery carts and mattresses. Have the following items in list been completed? Were they funded or cut?

I have a drainage easement near my home that I have asked to be cleaned for the last 5 years and I had to do it myself.  A 16″ diameter grated inlet that if plugged would back up and ruin my house. Fortunately, this time it was open and the normal dry drainage easement was a white water rapids. No thanks to the city.

Is this an act of God? Or an act of stupidity on part of North St. Paul? Those affected should regardless what the CITY SAYS, should  seriously consolidate and seek legal counsel to explore a class action lawsuit for possible negligence, improper management and design of water drainage systems.

The Mayor during the meeting tried to compare it to a tornado, what? Then he said (paraphrase) you can never really guess what too big of a pipe you need. another what? Yes you can! If you run the correct rainfall analysis with all the empirical data you can plan for that. Obviously the pipes are not big enough and this will happen again if not corrected.


Project Name: Target (now: Postal Credit Union) Pond Project

Construction Start and End Date: 10/94 – 6/95

Project Cost and Funding Sources:

Funding was provided through the District Capital Improvements Fund (funded by District wide ad valorem tax).

Total Project Cost: $2,200,000

Project Purpose and Description:

 This was an identified flood control project in the Phalen Chain of Lakes Watershed Management Plan. Without the project, District hydrological models estimated that White Bear Avenue would be overtopped by flood waters, resulting in street and utility damage and flooding damage to a number of adjacent businesses. The project provided needed additional storage volume within an existing basin.

To provide the additional storage the bottom of the existing basin and the outlet elevation were lowered by six feet. The basin was further excavated to provide for water quality improvement. The ten foot deep portion of the pond covers about 25% of the pond surface. The remaining 75% of the basin is 6 to 12 inches deep, allowing for growth of emergent wetland plants. Due to the new outlet depth, the project included the installation of a piped outlet to replace the previous open channel. At the request of the adjacent property owners, the district replaced the stream channel on top of the new pipe and provided a lift station to replace the previous base level stream flow. The project also included the construction of a low weir at a downstream wetland to stabilize erosion at the outlet.

The basin re-vegetated very quickly with emergent bull rush and cattail plants. A group of volunteers planted about 500 shrubs and trees around the basin with District staff guidance. Other volunteer groups have helped re-vegetate the downstream channel.

The above is a best layman’s estimate of flow of storm water.

Between the Mayor and council there was plenty of banal platitudes tossed around. Why does the council always look so stoned or high? Speech impediments? disabilities? The only coherent speaker is the Mayor, that is, if you understand his twisted prevarications.

This is a major set back in the revitalization to a city who already is moribund with little hope of ever being self sustaining (tax base) and prosperous. The agenda of the past 40 years has galvanized it’s Marxian position as a poor, old, unstable community not trustworthy by the people who governed it into the ground (or water).

Little interest as usual while the sheeple play. Apathy still prevails here, which will be apparent again during this crisis as exemplified by the fact that out of 4000 odd households in this city only 500 people bothered to participate in the 2012 budget process SURVEY. The City Manager and Mayor always talk about this cities ability to rally together and get things done. Not anymore, those people either have died of old age, moved or have been replaced by the indigent and the welfare crowd.

So let’s start working on the “Living Street” program! Because surely this is exactly what this city needs now. Dear God…

What this city needs now is leadership not  DIP STICKS and people who care more about stray cats and Buckthorn,  NO ONE CARES, that is, unless they are personally affected.

Thank GOD DAVE ZICK saved the city.

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7 Responses to North Saint Paul Water Management Plan 2008–Watershed In This City–2011 Flood

  1. Suz says:

    Hi- My basement was flooded from the storm in No St Paul- I am trying to find out more info.
    You posted-
    “Minnesota state law was not followed, IMHNAO– Look it up and read it.” Do you have a link…I can’t find this?
    I’m sorry & thank you!

  2. Scott says:

    READ the Water Management Plan like I did. It is in there if you follow the LINK and read it.

  3. Steven Determan says:

    I moved into 2500 7th Ave E. #2 (Called mid-town apts.) Last friday 6:00AM raining
    so hard sewer system failed, and water came in through toilet, flooded my whole apt.
    total loss,plus it was denied by my ins. wasn’t told by Duran & Assoc. the building was
    flooded before! Now Im living where it is the least expensive! Prior I gave notice of my departure belongings all packed and ready to move the sewers backed up, and lost
    everything! I need help! Please advice!!!!!

  4. Steven Determan says:

    Why not are you hiding in the shadows like most paulations, all show and no go! Are youaffraid to man up?????? Afraid to admitt you failed! You will be in contact with my attorney.

  5. Steven Determan says:

    Meet me at Neumans at 12:00 Wed. from ther the protest will begin!
    We must confront the city and not let them get away with this wrong doing to the victims of this mis managment, and poor design!!

  6. admin says:

    Ahh…Steve, maybe you should get some grief counseling. Blaming me for your problem sounds sorta crazy. Maybe you should MAN UP and take responsibility for your life choices and actions. Although you live in the Peoples Republic of North Saint Paul does not give you a right to demand anything from anyone. I laid out information, It’s up to you to take charge of your own affairs. Try going to all the affected houses and people and create a coalition to approach this situation. Stomping your feet and waiving your hands around like a child won’t change a darn thing. Sorry for your loss but get a grip man.

  7. Iron Ranger says:

    What a bunch of whiners. Always trying to blame the government. It was an act of God for crying out loud. TRASH…REPEATED UNWANTED COMMENTS

    KEEP IT UP AND I WILL POST YOUR NAME< ADDRESS< PHONE NUMBER< IP ADDRESS ADMINOK RETIRED DULUTH COP, Certified FFL Dealer, EX CITY COUNCILMAN. Who use to drink at the now burned down bar in town, you know the one, that guy who was arrested not to long ago for arson. Friend of yours????

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